What an utterly brilliant and captivating sit down! Moved a few things around this afternoon to free the time to watch and glad I did.
There can’t be too many bigger names alive in drug trafficking lore and you, Ioan, have every right to have been sitting there looking like a kid on Christmas Day at times when the camera cut to you!!
Really fascinating the way he talks about Escobar.
‘He was courageous to the point of stupidity’
Carlos himself comes across really well and I reckon you’d have to be someone with ‘previous’ with him to not like the guy.
Super appreciated there Johnny - yes, he is a complicated man but on a personal level he is genuinely a very warm nice guy. Some think I should have grilled him harder but I think I got a good balance in a mix of crazy circumstancias. Glad to bring this one Home.
Having watched the 90 mins + I’d say that you struck a good balance with the man and done it in a way that got a good and open interview out of him - although I’m still not sure if his entire version was the full truth as I thought it was pretty much accepted that Escobar had arranged for the Supreme Court to be attacked by MS19?
(I may have been lied to by everything I’ve ever read or watched on that subject though so will apologise to Senor Lehder if I’m wrong!)
The sit down *has* to be the one and only time I will watch an interview where I see an ex member of the Medellin Cartel asked if they’re a Nazi, for one thing!
I’m always a little mixed in emotions when I watch an interview like that with a big player in the history of narco culture and sit there and be charmed by them while also in no doubt that a lot of people will have lost their lives over the years because of this same person.
It’s a paradox but at the same time, at least we’re not 100% cheering on the bad guys!
Well put Johnny, I agree that Ioan did a great interview overall and out of all the various interviews with gangsters or smugglers I've heard throughout the years, this was def my first time hearing a curiosity question regarding whether or not this particular 'reformed drug lord' was a Nazi or not, too. ^^
('pop narco culture' ie movies n tvshows has definitely generally portrayed sr Lehder as such though, so the q itself was warranted imo. :)
There’s clearly a lot of myths which producers and writers feel is a lot more sexier than what the actual truth may be so just go with it and to hell with the facts. One that always makes me laugh when I see it is the figure of $2,500 that gets put out for how much Escobar spent on rubber bands each month to hold his money together. As if *anyone* would know such a thing.
There is some footage of him talking about Hitler back in the 80s, which was one source that made TV shows go though that way - although it doesn't mean he was a Nazi and he could have been on a coke binge, as he admits...
Yeah, there were certainly more crimes he committed that he didn't go into but I find his argument on M-19 could be convincing. I don't know for sure, but that is his argument for the record...
Yeah his reasons for *why* Escobar had nothing to do with it definitely all made sense and stacked up, which I guess confused me even more as was left thinking why people never sided with that line over the years.
I guess it’s the whole ‘print the legend instead of the truth’ all over again?
A perfect example of the author letting the subject speak. The gold is in the comments Carlos makes after answering the question. Well done.
Now we have some flesh put on the bones of the "Medellin Cartel". The business plan. Not the drama.
My first introduction to this world occurred years before the "Cartel". 1973. On a United States Army base. In the barracks. Cocaine was already here. Ioan and Carlos filled in the blanks on how the narcos took advantage of the inroads that cocaine had already established in the United States.
A fantastic job! I was not aware that Carlos left Germany and returned to Colombia. Just bought his book and am excited to get into the crevices of this history.
Thanks much there Gregorio, and fascinating about the U.S. army base in 1973. Was that mainland United States or abroad? I guess either way, the cocaine trade was already in good swing by that time. Best there.
My pleasure. Your work is amazing but the Lehrer interview, no words. Kidnapped like MZ ☑️ … the way Lehder positioned Pablo to make a promise to that og Cardinal on his family’s safety was genius. They all feared religion and extradition to the US, Pablo too.. and the ones still here they hate Netflix with passion! Pablo’s brother Roberto tried suing the network, he told me about it when I met him in Medellin 2019.
Really great interview Ioan. I swear most of crashout's exclusive drops are basically jawdropping stuff, this being one ofc while 'just off the top of my noggin', another quite recent ones was your collab article about the Ruski drug situation.
Earlier today actually finally got around to listening to the last few chapters of El Narco, which was the only book of yours I hadnt read/heard all the way through yet, so.. very much looking forward to your upcoming one, whenever that drops ^^
(Your latest, blood gun money, is prolly my fav thus far. Somewhat superduper apropeau as well, partly since the us supreme court recently denied potential lawsuits vs some weapon manufacturers in the us, and the recent imo 'almost obvious upcoming wombo combo' made by the orange prez; i.e. first by labeling cartels as enemies of the us state, and now having authorized their military to pursue those orgs abroad..)
Sorry if that got a tad too much of a ramble or rant. Appreciate you, thanks for all your high quality work!
Thanks much there Mar a Man and You can never ramble too much in the CrashOut comments. We love a chit-chat here. Glad you liked Bloody Gun Money - I hope My next book can push the boat out Even further. All Best there friend.
Fantastic interview and does present some real interesting historical tidbits. In one brief sentence he further confirmed the Barry Seal alliance with Escobar. His description of the support for the Contra's by the Medellin Cartel confirmed exactly the map of support that Gary Webb presented. What really caught my ear was the thousands of small narcos ready to provide cocaine for the United States, suggesting a much larger and more diverse criminal drug rings in the US. I have his book in Spanish in a PDF which I translated chapters into English. My Spanish is terrible. His book in English will definitely be welcomed in my library.
There was though a huge underground network of former Nazi's either traveling through or escaping to Colombia. Klaus Barbie was instrumental in the Cocaine Coup in Bolivia in 1980 and had extensive narco ties along with being an agent of the CIA. There is never enough information about that network and time. The more you study the period, the more it seems likely with the Klaus Barbie connection to the Medellin Cartel and a Lehder connection cannot be dismissed nor can Lehder really discuss that connection without creating more problems for his life. I hope you can release more information from the interview.
Yes, I will certainly out more details I learned from him in future investigations, including about the Bobby Seal connection. Klaus Barbie is certainly an interesting Nazi- narco connection. I generally believe that Carlos is not some kind of committed Nazi; he built a statue to John Lennon after all. However, there is an accusation his father had some deeper connection to Germany while in Colombia. The whole Bolivia cocaine coup is a fascinating episode.
Once again, Ioan proves hes the best english reporter doing this stuff. Bravo. I cant wait to watch it all. As an ex hack, I have nothing but extreme admiration for Ioan and his work. Chapeau!
I can’t wait to listen to this! Did he get into his political beliefs ? A fan of Jon Lennon and especially Adolph Hitler who lived to party ! 33 years is a really long prison stay.
Absolutely, he went it into it all - his political party, statue of John Lennon, denial of being a Nazi, the FARC, M-19, Contras. It goes long and deep, a lot of books need to be amended based on this...
What an utterly brilliant and captivating sit down! Moved a few things around this afternoon to free the time to watch and glad I did.
There can’t be too many bigger names alive in drug trafficking lore and you, Ioan, have every right to have been sitting there looking like a kid on Christmas Day at times when the camera cut to you!!
Really fascinating the way he talks about Escobar.
‘He was courageous to the point of stupidity’
Carlos himself comes across really well and I reckon you’d have to be someone with ‘previous’ with him to not like the guy.
Super appreciated there Johnny - yes, he is a complicated man but on a personal level he is genuinely a very warm nice guy. Some think I should have grilled him harder but I think I got a good balance in a mix of crazy circumstancias. Glad to bring this one Home.
Having watched the 90 mins + I’d say that you struck a good balance with the man and done it in a way that got a good and open interview out of him - although I’m still not sure if his entire version was the full truth as I thought it was pretty much accepted that Escobar had arranged for the Supreme Court to be attacked by MS19?
(I may have been lied to by everything I’ve ever read or watched on that subject though so will apologise to Senor Lehder if I’m wrong!)
The sit down *has* to be the one and only time I will watch an interview where I see an ex member of the Medellin Cartel asked if they’re a Nazi, for one thing!
I’m always a little mixed in emotions when I watch an interview like that with a big player in the history of narco culture and sit there and be charmed by them while also in no doubt that a lot of people will have lost their lives over the years because of this same person.
It’s a paradox but at the same time, at least we’re not 100% cheering on the bad guys!
Well put Johnny, I agree that Ioan did a great interview overall and out of all the various interviews with gangsters or smugglers I've heard throughout the years, this was def my first time hearing a curiosity question regarding whether or not this particular 'reformed drug lord' was a Nazi or not, too. ^^
('pop narco culture' ie movies n tvshows has definitely generally portrayed sr Lehder as such though, so the q itself was warranted imo. :)
There’s clearly a lot of myths which producers and writers feel is a lot more sexier than what the actual truth may be so just go with it and to hell with the facts. One that always makes me laugh when I see it is the figure of $2,500 that gets put out for how much Escobar spent on rubber bands each month to hold his money together. As if *anyone* would know such a thing.
There is some footage of him talking about Hitler back in the 80s, which was one source that made TV shows go though that way - although it doesn't mean he was a Nazi and he could have been on a coke binge, as he admits...
Yeah, there were certainly more crimes he committed that he didn't go into but I find his argument on M-19 could be convincing. I don't know for sure, but that is his argument for the record...
Yeah his reasons for *why* Escobar had nothing to do with it definitely all made sense and stacked up, which I guess confused me even more as was left thinking why people never sided with that line over the years.
I guess it’s the whole ‘print the legend instead of the truth’ all over again?
A perfect example of the author letting the subject speak. The gold is in the comments Carlos makes after answering the question. Well done.
Now we have some flesh put on the bones of the "Medellin Cartel". The business plan. Not the drama.
My first introduction to this world occurred years before the "Cartel". 1973. On a United States Army base. In the barracks. Cocaine was already here. Ioan and Carlos filled in the blanks on how the narcos took advantage of the inroads that cocaine had already established in the United States.
A fantastic job! I was not aware that Carlos left Germany and returned to Colombia. Just bought his book and am excited to get into the crevices of this history.
Thanks much there Gregorio, and fascinating about the U.S. army base in 1973. Was that mainland United States or abroad? I guess either way, the cocaine trade was already in good swing by that time. Best there.
Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Home of the Airborne and Special Operations. Located near Fayetteville, NC, which we called Fayettnam.
Very interesting. All Best there friend and fantastic to have you on board at CrashOut.
Hi Ioan, this is my first paid subscription to any type of reportage.
Great to have you on board my friend. Your support and voice is well appreciated here and we aim to give you the best content we can. Cheers.
My pleasure. Your work is amazing but the Lehrer interview, no words. Kidnapped like MZ ☑️ … the way Lehder positioned Pablo to make a promise to that og Cardinal on his family’s safety was genius. They all feared religion and extradition to the US, Pablo too.. and the ones still here they hate Netflix with passion! Pablo’s brother Roberto tried suing the network, he told me about it when I met him in Medellin 2019.
Very interesting there Butter. Roberto must be quite a character as well. I met Pablo's son but not brother.
Really great interview Ioan. I swear most of crashout's exclusive drops are basically jawdropping stuff, this being one ofc while 'just off the top of my noggin', another quite recent ones was your collab article about the Ruski drug situation.
Earlier today actually finally got around to listening to the last few chapters of El Narco, which was the only book of yours I hadnt read/heard all the way through yet, so.. very much looking forward to your upcoming one, whenever that drops ^^
(Your latest, blood gun money, is prolly my fav thus far. Somewhat superduper apropeau as well, partly since the us supreme court recently denied potential lawsuits vs some weapon manufacturers in the us, and the recent imo 'almost obvious upcoming wombo combo' made by the orange prez; i.e. first by labeling cartels as enemies of the us state, and now having authorized their military to pursue those orgs abroad..)
Sorry if that got a tad too much of a ramble or rant. Appreciate you, thanks for all your high quality work!
Thanks much there Mar a Man and You can never ramble too much in the CrashOut comments. We love a chit-chat here. Glad you liked Bloody Gun Money - I hope My next book can push the boat out Even further. All Best there friend.
Great interview, Ioan!
Thanks much and best there Emmanuel
Fantastic interview and does present some real interesting historical tidbits. In one brief sentence he further confirmed the Barry Seal alliance with Escobar. His description of the support for the Contra's by the Medellin Cartel confirmed exactly the map of support that Gary Webb presented. What really caught my ear was the thousands of small narcos ready to provide cocaine for the United States, suggesting a much larger and more diverse criminal drug rings in the US. I have his book in Spanish in a PDF which I translated chapters into English. My Spanish is terrible. His book in English will definitely be welcomed in my library.
There was though a huge underground network of former Nazi's either traveling through or escaping to Colombia. Klaus Barbie was instrumental in the Cocaine Coup in Bolivia in 1980 and had extensive narco ties along with being an agent of the CIA. There is never enough information about that network and time. The more you study the period, the more it seems likely with the Klaus Barbie connection to the Medellin Cartel and a Lehder connection cannot be dismissed nor can Lehder really discuss that connection without creating more problems for his life. I hope you can release more information from the interview.
Yes, I will certainly out more details I learned from him in future investigations, including about the Bobby Seal connection. Klaus Barbie is certainly an interesting Nazi- narco connection. I generally believe that Carlos is not some kind of committed Nazi; he built a statue to John Lennon after all. However, there is an accusation his father had some deeper connection to Germany while in Colombia. The whole Bolivia cocaine coup is a fascinating episode.
Once again, Ioan proves hes the best english reporter doing this stuff. Bravo. I cant wait to watch it all. As an ex hack, I have nothing but extreme admiration for Ioan and his work. Chapeau!
Super appreciated there Ben and back at yer friend.
As usual, important and unique work. Thank you for this.
Appreciated there Vincent and back at yer
Amazing thank you, I haven’t watched it yet but I already know it’s going to be epic!!! Thank you for this!
Yeah, it goes deep into a lot of issues. All best there Wicho!
I'd love to see you and Toby Muse compare notes on Colombia.
Absolutely, would be a great chat. I really enjoyed his book "Kilo."
I can’t wait to listen to this! Did he get into his political beliefs ? A fan of Jon Lennon and especially Adolph Hitler who lived to party ! 33 years is a really long prison stay.
Absolutely, he went it into it all - his political party, statue of John Lennon, denial of being a Nazi, the FARC, M-19, Contras. It goes long and deep, a lot of books need to be amended based on this...