Tremendous blog/article my friend! You didn't hear much about Chiapas but it appears to be changing. Very interesting to learn the history in this region is predominantly Mayan--much different from that of the Aztecs. Also, I was interested in the Evangelical movement in Mexico. About two years ago I found myself doing work in Huejutla de Reyes and discovering a growing Evangelical movement which has caused friction in those parts with the non-Evangelicals. It was at that time, that I was schooled in the Nahuatl language which appears to be increasing in popularity. The round trip bus ride (from Tampico) was arduous but it was well worth a peek into this fascinating part of Mexico. Thanks for sharing your informative story!
Just saying, stories like this are why you're one of my first stops on this app. So many intricate threads combine to make the thing people call "organized crime"; and yet they think they can ignore all those and just police it away. Sounds like the Chamula used OC to seize an agency previously denied them by Mexican society. More evidence for the "transitional phase hypothesis "?
Thanks so much there Shaggy. Yeah, I think cartels are becoming (or have become) a key institution of power in Mexico, but then they are violently unstable so we'll see how long this can last. I had to look up "transitional phase hypothesis" but that sounds like it could take me into some interesting territory. Best there friend.
I've probably mentioned such a thing to you before; the idea that cartels/mafias/tongs, etc. are a "transitional phase" of lower-status, excluded groups (like many ethnic immigrant groups to the US at various times) to achieving socioeconomic power, agency, and eventually "legitimacy" in a given society.
I call it a hypothesis because I lack the sociology (and data science) skills to proof it into a theory. It casts these organizations into something beyond the "predator/prey" dynamic, tho'; so many people will reject it. But that's what happens when you challenge easy (and culturally profitable) narratives.
Ahh yeah got it. I can see how that definitely works with the Italian / Irish / Jewish mob in the U.S. I think with this cartel war in Mexico it's too early to see where it all heads. I am sure there will be some people that will go through the cartels and find respectability but I am not sure that is the direction of the cartels generally. But let's see - we still have plenty of years of bloodshed to go. Best there.
Great note. It scares me. I lived in San Cristobal in the early 90s, after visiting frequently during the 80s. Displacement of evangelical converts had an economic motive behind, more than religious: evangelicals wouldn’t drink posh anymore, thus affecting a business owned by local authorities in San Juan. So it is really no big surprise their linkage to narco economy, i see it as a simple upgrade. Thanks Ioan!
Thanks and best there Carlos. Yes, very interesting how things change and so much of our world is the law of unintended consequences. If you havent been to San Cristobal for a while it has really changed. All best there friend.
When you say that the word 'mestizo' isn't used anymore, do you mean that the word 'mexican' itself (when referring to an ethnicity) is equivalent to mestizo?
Thanks Paavan. Mexican refers to the nationality and people can be any color. I would say mestizo simply doesn't come up in conversation, as the vast majority of people are mestizo. If you were describing someone, you wouldn't say they were mestizo but use other details. Best there friend.
Moreno is used as a descriptive term but meaning dark skinned, which could be indigenous, mestizo, black or something else. Indio is seen as a bad word and can be used as an insult.
Is it not common to call the indigenous “Indio” in Mexico? When I was living in Honduras, they would call the indigenous (and those with more Amerindian features) “indio”. Though, I can see how how it can be used as an insult (for example, at the school I taught at, they would call kids with East Asian features “chino/china”.
Thanks much there Barbara. Yeah, there are so many amazing and under covered stories in Mexico. And looking forward to your work on the fine corner of Acapulco. All best there.
I'm in San Cristobal for a week or two, and just broadcast my radio show from here on shortwave. Curious if you are going to do an article on Chilean Ex-president Sebastián Piñera, who died tragically in a helo crash last week. I hit the subject on the radio show, but it is not widely known who this man was. Piñera divorced conservatism from the catholic church and led the rise of conservative presidencies in the Americas long before Donald Trump entered politics. https://open.substack.com/pub/gospelgunslingers/p/lbts-75-death-of-sebastian-pinera?r=366mf&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true
Hi there Pastor Sam, Good to hear from you and it's been a while. Sure, I sure the story on Sebastián Piñera but I am not sure how much I would add to it here. There are so many stories to cover and I try and hit things where I can make a bit of difference in the coverage. Hope all is well in Chiapas though and I'd be fascinated about how you see things with the Evangelicals there now. All best friend.
Yes I did notice the difference. You seem pretty cynical in ‘Blood Gun Money’. The thing I appreciate about that book, and El Narco too, is your honest attempt to drill into the heart of the problem and not to attach to any certain narrative. That might be the easy way to go and properly presented might sell more product.
Yeah, seeing too many corpses and talking to too many killers I feel has hardened me somewhat. But I still have passion to keep exploring and this situation is a long long way from over. All best friend.
The Los Motonetos, which seems to be a loose description of various scooter gangs, seem to be a group for hire to do any violence requested by anyone who will pay them. Did the Chamula cartel evolve from the Los Motonetos who seemingly evolved from the extortion efforts by businessmen in San Cristobal. A leader of a faction of the Los Motonetos who was assassinated last year was a businessman heavily involved in the extortion and protection racket in San Cristobal.
The Jalisco New Generation Cartel has really escalated it's violence in Chiapas the past couple of months and it seems that the CJNG has aligned itself with the Kaibiles which probably means more violence in San Cristobal with the Chamula Cartel aligned with the Sinaloa Cartel. If there are actual trained members of the Kaibiles working with the CJNG, the violence in San Cristobal and Chiapas will really be extreme.
Yeah, I would say what the Chamula Cartel is like a collection of interconnected mafias in San Juan Chamula and the northern slums of San Cristobal that grew big and merged over time. The Motonetos are a key part of it, but as you say will do hits for hire, and are more the lower level. I think the biggest players evolved from "leaders" like you mention who can charge protection and came from social organizations and big power players in San Juan Chamula who were working the Zetas and other traffickers going back well over a decade. It's most definitely scary when the kaibiles get involved. Chiapas is a tinder box to watch.
Great work Ioan. My cousin who is a Chiapas native and still lives there has urged me in the past to visit as soon as I can as she says the state is changing a lot and not always for the better. She says she still wants me to see the many good things the state has to offer before they disappear or become inaccessible, mind you she was also referring to some of the effects of the changing climate that she says was endangering some of Chiapas’s natural beauties. However, I wonder what Chiapas looks like a couple years from now.
That photo of the large house is quite incredible especially since its the kind of sight you dont associate with southern mexico often. All the best there Ioan
Thanks much for reading Roberto. I definitely have seen San Cristobal change massively over the last couple of decades. I think she gives good advice to see it now (and it all it's great stuff) because there is a chance that in a few years it will be hard - although I hope that is not the case. All best there and stay in touch friend.
There was a shooting in the San Cristobal central market today. The deceased was supposed to be a heavy-hitter, "El Fallo" or something similar. Rival factions of indigenous cartels are gonna rumble!
Super appreciated Daniel. I look back on writing El Narco with a certain fondness, I think on having more optimism as I was putting that together 14 years ago. I think I believed the solutions could be easier but here we here now. All best friend and great to have you as a reader.
Wouldn't be surprised if the government has given carte blanche to cartels in Chiapas, to weaken the Zapatistas or any likeminded nascent movements.
There's mega construction and petrol projects being held up, one in the heart of EZLN land. Would be a cheap and nasty way to settle it. Ends a thirty year PR quagmire to boot.
Collusion with criminal elements to combat labour/radical politics is not a foreign concept to SA, nor the rest of the world.
Tremendous blog/article my friend! You didn't hear much about Chiapas but it appears to be changing. Very interesting to learn the history in this region is predominantly Mayan--much different from that of the Aztecs. Also, I was interested in the Evangelical movement in Mexico. About two years ago I found myself doing work in Huejutla de Reyes and discovering a growing Evangelical movement which has caused friction in those parts with the non-Evangelicals. It was at that time, that I was schooled in the Nahuatl language which appears to be increasing in popularity. The round trip bus ride (from Tampico) was arduous but it was well worth a peek into this fascinating part of Mexico. Thanks for sharing your informative story!
Just saying, stories like this are why you're one of my first stops on this app. So many intricate threads combine to make the thing people call "organized crime"; and yet they think they can ignore all those and just police it away. Sounds like the Chamula used OC to seize an agency previously denied them by Mexican society. More evidence for the "transitional phase hypothesis "?
Thanks so much there Shaggy. Yeah, I think cartels are becoming (or have become) a key institution of power in Mexico, but then they are violently unstable so we'll see how long this can last. I had to look up "transitional phase hypothesis" but that sounds like it could take me into some interesting territory. Best there friend.
I've probably mentioned such a thing to you before; the idea that cartels/mafias/tongs, etc. are a "transitional phase" of lower-status, excluded groups (like many ethnic immigrant groups to the US at various times) to achieving socioeconomic power, agency, and eventually "legitimacy" in a given society.
I call it a hypothesis because I lack the sociology (and data science) skills to proof it into a theory. It casts these organizations into something beyond the "predator/prey" dynamic, tho'; so many people will reject it. But that's what happens when you challenge easy (and culturally profitable) narratives.
Ahh yeah got it. I can see how that definitely works with the Italian / Irish / Jewish mob in the U.S. I think with this cartel war in Mexico it's too early to see where it all heads. I am sure there will be some people that will go through the cartels and find respectability but I am not sure that is the direction of the cartels generally. But let's see - we still have plenty of years of bloodshed to go. Best there.
Great note. It scares me. I lived in San Cristobal in the early 90s, after visiting frequently during the 80s. Displacement of evangelical converts had an economic motive behind, more than religious: evangelicals wouldn’t drink posh anymore, thus affecting a business owned by local authorities in San Juan. So it is really no big surprise their linkage to narco economy, i see it as a simple upgrade. Thanks Ioan!
Thanks and best there Carlos. Yes, very interesting how things change and so much of our world is the law of unintended consequences. If you havent been to San Cristobal for a while it has really changed. All best there friend.
When you say that the word 'mestizo' isn't used anymore, do you mean that the word 'mexican' itself (when referring to an ethnicity) is equivalent to mestizo?
Thanks Paavan. Mexican refers to the nationality and people can be any color. I would say mestizo simply doesn't come up in conversation, as the vast majority of people are mestizo. If you were describing someone, you wouldn't say they were mestizo but use other details. Best there friend.
Terms like Moreno & Indio?
Moreno is used as a descriptive term but meaning dark skinned, which could be indigenous, mestizo, black or something else. Indio is seen as a bad word and can be used as an insult.
Is it not common to call the indigenous “Indio” in Mexico? When I was living in Honduras, they would call the indigenous (and those with more Amerindian features) “indio”. Though, I can see how how it can be used as an insult (for example, at the school I taught at, they would call kids with East Asian features “chino/china”.
Yeah, people still use it but it's seen badly.
Another brilliant one. I look forward to seeing how you gather this together into the next book 👍✍️
Thanks much there Barbara. Yeah, there are so many amazing and under covered stories in Mexico. And looking forward to your work on the fine corner of Acapulco. All best there.
I'm in San Cristobal for a week or two, and just broadcast my radio show from here on shortwave. Curious if you are going to do an article on Chilean Ex-president Sebastián Piñera, who died tragically in a helo crash last week. I hit the subject on the radio show, but it is not widely known who this man was. Piñera divorced conservatism from the catholic church and led the rise of conservative presidencies in the Americas long before Donald Trump entered politics. https://open.substack.com/pub/gospelgunslingers/p/lbts-75-death-of-sebastian-pinera?r=366mf&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=true
Hi there Pastor Sam, Good to hear from you and it's been a while. Sure, I sure the story on Sebastián Piñera but I am not sure how much I would add to it here. There are so many stories to cover and I try and hit things where I can make a bit of difference in the coverage. Hope all is well in Chiapas though and I'd be fascinated about how you see things with the Evangelicals there now. All best friend.
Yes I did notice the difference. You seem pretty cynical in ‘Blood Gun Money’. The thing I appreciate about that book, and El Narco too, is your honest attempt to drill into the heart of the problem and not to attach to any certain narrative. That might be the easy way to go and properly presented might sell more product.
Yeah, seeing too many corpses and talking to too many killers I feel has hardened me somewhat. But I still have passion to keep exploring and this situation is a long long way from over. All best friend.
The Los Motonetos, which seems to be a loose description of various scooter gangs, seem to be a group for hire to do any violence requested by anyone who will pay them. Did the Chamula cartel evolve from the Los Motonetos who seemingly evolved from the extortion efforts by businessmen in San Cristobal. A leader of a faction of the Los Motonetos who was assassinated last year was a businessman heavily involved in the extortion and protection racket in San Cristobal.
The Jalisco New Generation Cartel has really escalated it's violence in Chiapas the past couple of months and it seems that the CJNG has aligned itself with the Kaibiles which probably means more violence in San Cristobal with the Chamula Cartel aligned with the Sinaloa Cartel. If there are actual trained members of the Kaibiles working with the CJNG, the violence in San Cristobal and Chiapas will really be extreme.
Yeah, I would say what the Chamula Cartel is like a collection of interconnected mafias in San Juan Chamula and the northern slums of San Cristobal that grew big and merged over time. The Motonetos are a key part of it, but as you say will do hits for hire, and are more the lower level. I think the biggest players evolved from "leaders" like you mention who can charge protection and came from social organizations and big power players in San Juan Chamula who were working the Zetas and other traffickers going back well over a decade. It's most definitely scary when the kaibiles get involved. Chiapas is a tinder box to watch.
Great work Ioan. My cousin who is a Chiapas native and still lives there has urged me in the past to visit as soon as I can as she says the state is changing a lot and not always for the better. She says she still wants me to see the many good things the state has to offer before they disappear or become inaccessible, mind you she was also referring to some of the effects of the changing climate that she says was endangering some of Chiapas’s natural beauties. However, I wonder what Chiapas looks like a couple years from now.
That photo of the large house is quite incredible especially since its the kind of sight you dont associate with southern mexico often. All the best there Ioan
Thanks much for reading Roberto. I definitely have seen San Cristobal change massively over the last couple of decades. I think she gives good advice to see it now (and it all it's great stuff) because there is a chance that in a few years it will be hard - although I hope that is not the case. All best there and stay in touch friend.
There was a shooting in the San Cristobal central market today. The deceased was supposed to be a heavy-hitter, "El Fallo" or something similar. Rival factions of indigenous cartels are gonna rumble!
Thanks for the update. It seems the San Cristobal market is at the center of their power struggles. All best there Pastor Sam.
Color and Tradition Chiapas touch
Indeed. Best there Guido Perez.
Another great piece to your ongoing tapestry. I’m really enjoying your work. Just finished El Narco. Moving on to the next one. Keep writing.
Super appreciated Daniel. I look back on writing El Narco with a certain fondness, I think on having more optimism as I was putting that together 14 years ago. I think I believed the solutions could be easier but here we here now. All best friend and great to have you as a reader.
Wouldn't be surprised if the government has given carte blanche to cartels in Chiapas, to weaken the Zapatistas or any likeminded nascent movements.
There's mega construction and petrol projects being held up, one in the heart of EZLN land. Would be a cheap and nasty way to settle it. Ends a thirty year PR quagmire to boot.
Collusion with criminal elements to combat labour/radical politics is not a foreign concept to SA, nor the rest of the world.